Exclusive: Inside The Venice Project, Built On Mozilla
The Venice Project is not just another online video start-up. The Luxembourg-based company is the latest co-production of the two-person hit factory of Niklas Zennstrom and Janus Friis. The founders of Kazaa and Skype are hoping that The Venice Project will upend the television experience just as their earlier efforts turned the music and phone businesses on their respective heads.
And while the glam duo might hog the headlines, the task of making the Venice Project a reality falls on the shoulders of Fredrik de Wahl, a lanky Swede with a quiet demeanor who has been a cohort of Messrs. Zennstrom and Friis for more than half a decade.
Unlike many of his Silicon Valley counterparts de Wahl prefers to stay out of the limelight. Sipping on his steaming hot, standard-issue Starbucks coffee, de Wahl outlined the vision for the Venice Project and answered our questions about Venice Project’s underlying technologies and why it is different from Skype and Kazaa.
In our two-hour long conversation, it became clear that while unlike Skype TVP is looking to work with incumbent content owners and networks, the rest of the game is being called from the same playbook.
Mozilla at the Core After Zennstrom left to work full time as the CEO of Skype, de Wahl took over as the chief executive of JoltId, the company that controls the peer-to-peer technology that powers not only Kazaa, but also Skype and now The Venice Project. “Skype licenses the P2P technology from Joltid,” de Wahl says.

He explains that just like a “Skylib” enables voice and chat services on the Joltid’s p2p layer, The Venice Project runs on a media streaming library the company has nick named Anthill. The company uses a H.264 codec licensed from CoreCodec, a US-based company, much in the manner Global IP Sound provided the voice codecs for Skype. “CoreCodec is the best of breed H.264 video codec and is efficient and has the high quality we need,” de Wahl says.
Running on top of these core technologies is a highly modified version of Mozilla browser, which makes it easy for the company to port its client to any operating system – Mac, Linux or even mobile operating systems. The user interface is built using Adobe’s SVG technology. In other words, it’s a Web-enabled hybrid application, much like the brilliant Songbird meta-music client.
Plugging Into the Project
The Mozilla framework will allow the company to layer web services into its client – social networking, video sharing and chat to mention a few. “I think very soon people can start writing plug-ins for the Venice Project,” he says. Mozilla has blossomed because of its lightweight footprint, security features, but mostly because of a vibrant developer community that has written plug-ins that extend Mozilla in many different ways.
(Update: Some of you asked for more clarifications on this bit, and I am working on getting more details. However, there is a comment about the client, from one of the developers over here that explains it quite clearly.
He says, “SVG is not the only technology used for the user interface, although it is the most used. XUL, XHTML and CSS are also used. This product is a great proof that XML-based markup technologies are ideal to create internet-integrated desktop applications.”
I have emailed the company to get official details, and will post them soon enough. )
By embracing the off-the-shelf technologies, he says, “it buys the company time to market.” Like The Venice Project client, he expects more and more start-ups to use the Mozilla framework to build hybrid applications, because this reduces the “software cycle” quite drastically. (I have written about this trend in the past, both on GigaOM and for the Business 2.0 magazine.)
When asked if Mac client was in the cards, de Wahl confirmed that the company was working on a client, but refused to give a timeline. A Linux client is also on the drawing board. “Basically we can port this to any platform including Apple TV and set-top boxes within weeks not months,” he added. Even PS3 and Nintendo Wii! Now that has our attention.
The Bandwidth Conundrum
Earlier this month there was a blog post that pointed out that TVP could lead to violation of ISP terms of service because as an application it consumes 250 megabits per hour. The post set off a furor. Some low-priced (but not all) plans are capped in terms of bandwidth and data transfer capacity, which could limit TVP’s acceptance.
The huge bandwidth on TVP is consumed when the application is actively streaming. But in an idle state, a very minimal amount of bandwidth is used, de Wahl explained. When I pressed him, de Wahl said that it drops to about a sixth of what it would be in an active state. He says the company is trying to work out the kinks, and reminded us that TVP is still in the beta phase. “Online video is a bandwidth-intensive application, and all net video providers will be consuming a lot of bandwidth,” he argued in his defense.
The Content Challenge
The technical challenges could be easily overcome with technical chutzpah; it is the content, or lack thereof, that might be company’s bete noir. TVP as it stands today is so devoid of content that it reminds you of New York during a particularly fierce snowstorm. In a world easily amused by three-minute shorts on Metacafe, TVP has to prove itself as a viable replacement for produced content.
“We are in the beta phase and are trying to solve all the technical issues, because we want to go to content producers with a full solution,” says de Wahl. He points out that the system is built for content owners to not only expand online, but also retain their branding, and monetize that content as well.
He argues that since the company will be able to offer global-sized audiences to the professional content creators, TVP will attract more and more content. Of course everyone is trying to do exactly that, including a Google-gobbled YouTube and well-funded start-ups such as Brightcove!
But de Wahl argues that the Venice Project platform can deliver content geo-targeting, and more-focused advertising. “Anyone, even a small professional producer of content can instantly go public,” he says, and just for effect says, “NBC can create 500 niche channels.” Maybe that is not a good thing, but a streaming cricket matches, now that is a whole different story!
As our conversation came to an end, what stuck was that Skype succeeded for two reasons – it made phone calls free, showing incumbents the longest finger of the human hand at a 90-degree angle. The second reason was that it was drop dead simple to use. At least TVP has got that one covered.
Comments (11)
Linkbacks (60)
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[…] I have just posted a feature length post over on NewTeeVee on The Venice Project, the P2P online video service co-founded by the Niklas Zennstrom and Janus Friis. […]
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[…] NewTeeVee has a post with a lot of details on the technology behind Venice Project, the new online television startup founded by Kazaa and Skype founders Niklas Zennstrom and Janus Friis. A very interesting disclosure – like Songbird, another startup, part of the product is built on the Mozilla application framework. See here for our previous Venice Project coverage. TheVeniceProject Sphere It […]
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[…] I’m one of the beta testers for the The Venice Project (TVP) which allows you to view TV programmes over the internet. While limited in content at the moment I’ve enjoyed using it and the usability is pretty decent so when more deals are made it may be a first port of call for new shows or something you’ve missed on TV. See here and here for further details of TVP. […]
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[…] NewTeeVee informe que Venice Project, le nouveau projet de télévision en ligne des fondateurs de Skype et Kazaa serait construit à l’instar de SongBird sur la plateforme Mozilla. Deux gros points faibles sur ce service alors que nous le testons. D’abord le contenu disponible est bien maigre mais surtout ils ont choisi de ne pas utiliser le navigateur internet et doit opérer dans un environnement séparé. Je ne suis pas sur que cela soit suffisant pour faire contre poids à YouTube. Au fait j’ai quelques invitations pour tester le service. Si cela vous intéresse merci de laisser en commentaire votre email. […]
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[…] “Running on top of these core technologies is a highly modified version of Mozilla browser, which makes it easy for the company to port its client to any operating system – Mac, Linux or even mobile operating systems”, explained GigaOM. “The user interface is built using Adobe’s SVG technology. In other words, it’s a Web-enabled hybrid application, much like the brilliant Songbird meta-music client. […] By embracing the off-the-shelf technologies, [Fredrik de Wahl, TVP project leader] says, “it buys the company time to market.” […]
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[…] I have to say the Venice Project looks promising. I signed an NDA when I got my copy. Apparently Om and the boys over at NewTeeVee didn’t. Read all about it there. […]
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[…] So, there’s tons of buzz about the Venice Project – Niklas Zennstrom and Janus Friis’ new start-up to disrupt the television industry – now that beta invitations have finally been extended. While I haven’t got my invitation yet (sniff, sniff), Om Malik has the inside story on the company’s strategic direction from Fredrik de Wahl, who is running the company. « Wi-Fi Woes at CES […]
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Skype, Venice, SVG…
Skype, Venice, SVG: Om Malik offers some vendor-certified kimono-opening on The Venice Project, something video-ish from people connected with Skype. I’ll wait to see it myself, but this line caught my eye: “The user interface is built using Adobe’…
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[…] NewTeeVee has a post with a lot of details on the technology behind Venice Project, the new online television startup founded by Kazaa and Skype founders Niklas Zennstrom and Janus Friis. A very interesting disclosure – like Songbird, another startup, part of the product is built on the Mozilla application framework. […]
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[…] NewTeeVeeはKazaaとSkypeのファウンダーNiklas ZennstromとJanus Friisが現在取り組んでいる新しいオンラインTVのスタートアップ、Venice Projectに用いられているテクノロジーについて詳しい解説記事を掲載している。大変面白い新事実が明らかになった ―Venice Projectは、別のスタートアップ、Songbird(英語版記事) (日本語版記事)と同様、部分的にMozillaアプリケーション・フレームワークをベースにしている。 […]
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[…] Exclusive: Inside The Venice Project, Built On Mozilla: ” […]
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[…] Lite godis för den tekniskt intresserade. The Venice Project har byggstenar från Mozilla. TVP blir öppet så att folk kan bygga plugins. NewTeeVee: Exclusive: Inside The Venice Project, Built On Mozilla […]
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[…] NewTeeVee » Exclusive: Inside The Venice Project […]
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[…] read more | digg story […]
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[…] NewTeeVee » Exclusive: Inside The Venice Project, Built On Mozilla […]
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The Venice Project – the devil starts to emerge from the details…
There is a very good article over here on GigaOm outlining a lot of what is under the bonnet of the Venice Project.
My reservation about TVP is not what it is, but what it is doing. As Om notes in his interview with CTO Fredrik de wahl:
He poin…
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[…] NewTeeVee » Exclusive: Inside The Venice Project, Built On Mozilla (tags: video p2p TV IPTV venice mozilla streaming) […]
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[…] There’s one thing I still don’t get about The Venice Project, the secretive, TV 2.0, peer-to-peer project being put together by billionaire Skype founder Janus Friis and Niklas Zennstrom to revolutionize the boob tube (Om Malik has an in-depth look here). And that thing is this: Why is it called The Venice Project? Did they think of it in a cafe in Venice? Is the project almost under water? Do Venetians watch a lot of TV, in addition to having invented the Venetian blind? I’m not sure. […]
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[…] So I received an invitation to “The Venice Project” beta from Ugo today. I have to say that I’m definitely impressed. Aside from the high quality user interface built on Mozilla, I also found out that they’re using Abdera for some stuff on the backend. What’s missing? A Linux client, good content and documentation on how to build plugins. […]
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[…] Continue to read full post… […]
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[…] The founders of Kazaa and Skype4 are hoping that The Venice Project will upend the television experience just as their earlier efforts turned the music and phone businesses on their respective heads.read more | digg story These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. […]
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[…] Exclusive: Inside The Venice Project, Built On Mozilla Interesting post on the technology behind the new project from the guys who brough us Skype. (tags: Video IPTV streaming mozilla tv Venice P2P) […]
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[…] The Venice Project on the other hand is architected and designed from the ground up to provide televsion to the masses based on the same technology that powers their last home-run (Skype). They even have thought (unlinke youtube) about how to get quality content and how to monetize it, just like how they monetized Skype. […]
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Exclusive: Inside The Venice Project Built On Mozilla…
Yeah, why? Your typical Mac comes with all the Unix goodies and goodness you could ever need. But there are a bunch of Linux PPC distributions that you can, if you feel the urge, install on your Apple hardware.
If you’ve been alive the last coup… -
[…] The Venice Project is all the rage right now. NewTeeVee has an interview with the TVP folks and dig into some of the background technology. Not only are they using the P2P technology they built for Kazaa, but they are also leveraging the Mozilla browser and other best of breed codecs. Running on top of these core technologies is a highly modified version of Mozilla browser, which makes it easy for the company to port its client to any operating system – Mac, Linux or even mobile operating systems. The user interface is built using SVG technology. In other words, it’s a Web-enabled hybrid application, much like the brilliant Songbird meta-music client. […]
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[…] NewTeeVee has a post with a lot of details on the technology behind Venice Project, the new online television startup founded by Kazaa and Skype founders Niklas Zennstrom and Janus Friis. A very interesting disclosure – like Songbird, another startup, part of the product is built on the Mozilla application framework. […]
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[…] NewTeeVee » Exclusive: Inside The Venice Project, Built On Mozilla More details on the Venice Project, the new venture by the founders of Kazaa and Skype (tags: television) […]
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[…] Om Malik ha scritto ieri un interessante articolo in cui riferisce molte informazioni apprese durante una conversazione con Fredrik de Wahl, da tempo a fianco di Zennstrom e Friis e a capo della società che fornisce il motore P2P ai loro prodotti. Per la prima volta possiamo sapere qualcosa in più sulle fondamenta tecnologiche del servizio/programma che promette di portare video ad alta qualità e trasmissione P2P nel mondo della NetTV (per chi non avesse già letto, l’ho provato un paio di settimane fa). […]
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[…] TVP是又Kazaa和Skype的创始人Niklas Zennstrom和Janus Friis创建。不难想象,这是继这两位老大用P2P技术支撑起音频共享和电话业务之后再次对于视频的尝试。事实上,Kazaa,Skype和现在的TVP都是用的Joltid的P2P引擎。 […]
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[…] NewTeeVee has a post with a lot of details on the technology behind Venice Project, the new online television startup founded by Kazaa and Skype founders Niklas Zennstrom and Janus Friis. A very interesting disclosure – like Songbird, another startup, part of the product is built on the Mozilla application framework. […]
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[…] Venice Project’s underlying technologies January 15, 2007 Posted by wernerramaekers in New Media. trackback Om Malik had an interview with Fredrik de Wahl, who leads the Venice Project on a day-to-day basis, and discussed with him how The Venice Project is different from Kazaa and Skype. You can read about this interview on the NewTeevee blog. […]
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[…] At the same time, online video revenue is expected to grow to $900 million by 2010 from $200 million in 2006. User-generated video, mostly supported by advertising, is expected to account for just 15 percent of this revenue. That’s a pretty conservative estimate, but it makes sense given the increasing availability of professional content online. […]
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[…] The Venice Project can’t escape hype, with GigaOM and NewTeeVee no exception. Finally, the online television startup from the founders of Skype has a production name: Joost. Of course, the premature hype streak lives on, as that URL is still password protected. […]
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[…] we have pretty much said it all before. NewTeeVee has new screen shots. No comments Share/Send Sphere Topic: Media, Startups Tags:none […]
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[…] NewTeeVee » Exclusive: Inside The Venice Project, Built On Mozilla […]
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[…] The highly-anticipated online video site — which promises to provide a true TV experience on the web — has launched in private beta as Joost.com (which is pronounced “juiced.”) Initially dubbed “The Venice Project,” Joost is the brainchild of Niklas Zennstrom and Janus Friis, who sold this little company called Skype for $2.6 billion to eBay in 2005. Just like Skype, Joost requires a downloadable app. The idea is to make it “as TV-like” as possible, with a program guide, channels and full-screen viewing. It’s powered by peer-to-peer technology, and it allows real-time chat and comprehensive search. Joost has inked deals with a handful of content providers, including Warner Music, and the company has said it will add many more in the near future. I haven’t seen it in action yet (still waiting for my beta application to be approved), but Om Malik has taken it for a spin and has this to say. Meanwhile, here’s a screen shot with more after the jump… […]
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[…] Om Malik, on NewTeeVee, has the best write up of the new venture: The Venice Project is not just another online video start-up. The Luxembourg-based company is the latest co-production of the two-person hit factory of Niklas Zennstrom and Janus Friis. The founders of Kazaa and Skype are hoping that The Venice Project will upend the television experience just as their earlier efforts turned the music and phone businesses on their respective heads. […]
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Joost…
Five of the best sites about online television service Joost. Know of another site that should be listed here? Leave your suggestion at the bottom of this page.
1. Joost – New service promises TV on the Web, with multiple channels of content as well as… -
[…] NewTeeVee » Exclusive: Inside The Venice Project, Built On Mozilla […]
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[…] Finalmente, en un reciente artículo publicado en NewTeeVee sobre la entrevista que mantuvieron con Fredik de Wahl, podréis encontrar información adicional sobre Joost/Venice. […]
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[…] “just like a “Skylib” enables voice and chat services on the Joltid’s p2p layer, The Venice Project runs on a media streaming library the company has nick named Anthill […]
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[…] NewTeeVee » Exclusive: Inside The Venice Project, Built On Mozilla (tags: joost ip) […]
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[…] We have devoted a good number of posts on Venice Project, the new online television service initiated by Skype founders, Niklas Zennstrom and Janus Friis. I read the latest updates about the project from NewTeeVee. In the post, Om has tried to cover all most all the aspects of Venice Project. […]
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[…] In an interview earlier this year the CEO Fredrik de Wahl had explained how easy it was for the company to port their client to other operating environments. He had promised a Mac client in less than two months. […]
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[…] In an interview earlier this year the CEO Fredrik de Wahl had explained how easy it was for the company to port their client to other operating environments. He had promised a Mac client in less than two months. Share:These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. […]
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[...] NewTeeVee has a post with a lot of details on the technology behind Venice Project, the new online television startup founded by Kazaa and Skype founders Niklas Zennstrom and Janus Friis. A very interesting disclosure – like Songbird, another startup, part of the product is built on the Mozilla application framework. [...]
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[...] Original post by Om Malik [...]
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[...] NewTeeVee.com [...]
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[...] the P2P TV creation of Janus Friis and Niklas Zennström, the co-founders of Kazaa and Skype. The company, just raised [...]
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[...] the P2P TV creation of Janus Friis and Niklas Zennström, the co-founders of Kazaa and Skype. The company, just raised [...]
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[...] the P2P TV creation of Janus Friis and Niklas Zennström, the co-founders of Kazaa and Skype. The company, just raised [...]
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[...] Si tratta di scaricare un programma, nel cui petto batte un cuore di software libero firmato Mozilla, mentre la registrazione è per ora solo su invito. La programmazione è ovviamente tutta in [...]
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[...] zu kommen. Die anderen Technologien, die bei Joost zum Einsatz kommen basieren zum großen Teil auf Open-Source-Komponenten. Und da auch die Gründer nicht Teil des Managements von Joost sind, bekamen die jetzigen [...]
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[...] (P2P based MPOG??) after the Joost-exit. The other technologies used for Joost are mainly based on Open-Source-components. And as the founders are not part of the management of Joost, the current investors’ only the [...]
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[...] Inside the Venice Project, Built on Mozilla [...]
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[...] read more | digg story [...]
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[...] in what will certainly be a long and tedious series of legal maneuvers) or technology ideas like Joost, a lot of people are taking TV on the computer very seriously. As well they should. Who [...]
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[...] Here’s the full article if you want to read more: http://newteevee.com/2007/01/11/venice-project-mozilla/ [...]
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[...] an example, Joost used P2P and required a client application. To increase the user base they migrated to as a Firefox plug-in, but even that wasn’t enough and [...]
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[...] Exclusive: Inside The Venice Project, Built On Mozilla Running on top of these core technologies is a highly modified version of Mozilla browser, which makes it easy for the company to port its client to any operating system — Mac, Linux or even mobile operating systems. The user interface is built using SVG technology. In other words, it?s a Web-enabled hybrid application, much like the brilliant Songbird meta-music client. http://newteevee.com/2007/01/11/venice-project-mozilla/ [...]
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A small correction: SVG, Scalable Vector Graphics, is not an Adobe technology. While Adobe has been a prominent advocate for SVG, the technology itself was developed collboratively within the W3C, the Web Standards organization. Thus, SVG is an open and royalty-free standard, which allows browser makers like Opera, Firefox or Safari to implement it natively along with more traditional web technologies such as HTML, CSS, JavaScript or the DOM.
i am using TVkoo for months, much better than Veniece project. TVkoo is claimed to be the zmazing product, one server of 100M bandwidth supports global broadcasting system with 100,000 users online simultaneously on the video of 350k bitrate.
Koo TV .PPLive ,SOPcast all are the same sort of tech using p2p and there is no community features built in …
http://www.myp2p.eu/Programs/TVko.htm
“but a streaming cricket matches, now that is a whole different story!”
Om I got invited to the Veince Project during the Ashes and you can see the potential right there with targeted advertising using geo-location .Im not sure if you have seen Direct TVs feed of the cricket from WillowTV …It Sucks …It makes you want comericals at the drinks breaks and over changes if the the right meta-tags where placed in the stream .One of the Venice Developers quiped on theier forums that they need to develop a between overs ad insertion algorithm .
Then theres the whole Adverttising bug oportunities that advertisers could use .Just put Beer and Chip commericals on the Cricket and they could make a fortune .
The Company is based all over Europe Leiden in the Neterlands seems to be where the client team is working out of ,Touluse France is where some of the server team is ,London is where Management tends to hang out when they are not elsewhere and New York must be where the advertising people must be .The company is registered in The Netherlands Antilles a group of Caribean Islands .The Netherlands is only where the data center is …
Oooops Luxembourg is where the Data Center is …
they should make it similar to http://www.chooseandwatch.com/ – nice, friendly, but add even more channels
Om,
I think the two hurdles you mention, content and download, are both surmountable. I think the bandwidth problem will be harder and that p2p solutions are not sufficient if TVP gets to real scale. If you’re interested, I’ve posted in more detail about it at the Lightspeed blog- click my name to read more
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